Weeb Wars / Animegate / #kickvic / #vickicksback - General Discussion Thread

The Decimator

Yes, Master!
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Who are these women? Maybe they're nice folks, but if I was a restaurant manager, and I saw this party of Karens walk in, I'd be sweating.
Elise Baughman, Linda Young, Tiffany Vollmer, and Stephanie Nadolny. They were at the same convention as Vic this past weekend.

Speaking of Miss Baughman, rabid KickVic activist and alleged rapist Neil Kaplan is going to be on her YouTube show today

E4C785F5-0165-4CDE-B3A1-E6AA59CE2407.jpeg

Every time I think I’ve seen the last of this guy, he keeps fucking coming back.
 

P5Fever

Tiddies out for my internalized misogyny
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Elise Baughman, Linda Young, Tiffany Vollmer, and Stephanie Nadolny. They were at the same convention as Vic this past weekend.

Speaking of Miss Baughman, rabid KickVic activist and alleged rapist Neil Kaplan is going to be on her YouTube show today

View attachment 1002038
Every time I think I’ve seen the last of this guy, he keeps fucking coming back.
coolman229 was at Mega Mini Con (he’s the guy who made the Fist of the Beard Star meme) he told me that he and a friend went to the con and saw Elise speaking with Vic while they were setting up tables. She even seemed completely relaxed around Vic according to him. He said he couldn’t hear what they were talking about however.

I do know Elise is an interviewer for her show on YouTube, Anime Adventures, so it seems like she truly is being a nuetral party it seems and is just doing her job interviewing voice actors. I met her once at a con, Kamehacon to be exact, she seems pretty cool. She didn’t set of any weird vibes like Chris and Sean gave me in the past at cons (hindsight is a bitch)
 

Kill all whales

Grifith x casca.
True & Honest Fan
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Elise Baughman, Linda Young, Tiffany Vollmer, and Stephanie Nadolny. They were at the same convention as Vic this past weekend.

Speaking of Miss Baughman, rabid KickVic activist and alleged rapist Neil Kaplan is going to be on her YouTube show today

View attachment 1002038
Every time I think I’ve seen the last of this guy, he keeps fucking coming back.
This motherfucker keeps coming back.
 

xyz741

kiwifarms.net
Isn't it more that as fandoms grow they attracted certain kinds of people that don't actually care about the property but more want to police it? This whole "toxic" fandom I've only noticed myself when those types start trying to insert themselves in something they clearly don't care about because it's the new hip thing and call the existing fanbase toxic for thinking that this policing is stupid. Whenever I see people complaining about a show being sexist or something they start calling the fanbase toxic when they get told to "just don't watch the show and stop bitching." They find problems where there aren't any so they can prop up the whole "SEE, we obviously need to police this fandom because stuff like this is still around!"
The original cons were started by the anime version of stereotypical Star Trek nerds (some of them even were Star Trek nerds), and for the first 5-10 years the number of cons was small and the core demo was pretty directly analogous to everyone's negative stereotype of Trekkies. (mostly college age, semi-antisocial dudes who were obsessively nerdy about their hobby with a minority of people (including women) that fell outside that demo) In the late 90s, the first anime boom hit and things went in exactly this order:
1. The population of girls (often cosplaying) increased until the con gender dynamic was closer to 50/50
2. Point 1 had exactly the effect you would expect if you understand how "ladies night" works at bars and nightclubs, and the male demographic changed dynamics
3. Anime on TV boomed in the early 00s and the age demo fell from 20s to teens (because you could now get anime free on TV whereas before you needed a job or it was more limited to college anime clubs)
4. The industry sales boom was around 2005 (bust was a few years later) and with the industry flush with cash, that's when you also had a flood of losers thinking they could run a convention instead of getting a real job
5. Late 00s is when voice actors looked around and wondered why they weren't getting a cut of the action and suddenly started charging fees
6. Early 10s is when cos-thots started trying to work IRL cam-whoring into a career

So basically where you are now is that anime conventions are poor mans "Disney World", you've got a bunch of people that are looking to pay some cash to be entertained for a weekend and a whole lot of people looking to tard cum them for as much cash as possible. Since the con demo has shifted younger many attendees as basically funded by mummy and daddy who are happy for the reasonably priced babysitting for a weekend and drop their kids off thinking it's a great place to put 12 - 15 year olds with no supervision.

If cons were still like (for example) a baseball card show where they're somewhat narrow in focus you'd have a better environment, because even with the chaotic age groups everyone would either gel around the core point or they'd just leave due to lack of interest. But due to point #4 above, most con orgs are trying to be everything to all people because more people is good for their back account. This means you get problems like the men from Point #2 coming to cons looking for a hook-up and regularly running into the kids from Point #3. (and sometimes trying to pickup underage girls or raging at underage boys interfering with their game, take your pick) And everyone from Points 4, 5 & 6 (and other groups not explicitly mentioned) looking to tard cum money out of anyone in arms reach and getting agitated by the high number of kids with no money.

I'm not saying things would be "better" if they had just stayed as the anime equivalent of trekkie events, but if so, it would've been a bunch of codependent nerds that would look out for their own. The actors would've either bought into the community or peace'd out. (at early cons, lots of actors looked down on voice work and were always shilling their theater or "front of camera" work at all opportunities) But there's so many disparate interests now that it's simply unrealistic to expect any real sense of community.
 

Lone MacReady

Enterprise 41'
kiwifarms.net
In other news, Monica and Jamie have appeared together in Azur Lane, as Nagato and Furutaka, respectively. No idea how important those characters are, but that's another role for each of them this season.
I think Enty sunk Nagato irl... her or Musashi I forget. Enty had so many kills its hard to keep track. I knew she was best ship for a reason.
tfutyk.jpg
 

HighwayStar

kiwifarms.net
Elise Baughman, Linda Young, Tiffany Vollmer, and Stephanie Nadolny. They were at the same convention as Vic this past weekend.

Speaking of Miss Baughman, rabid KickVic activist and alleged rapist Neil Kaplan is going to be on her YouTube show today

View attachment 1002038
Every time I think I’ve seen the last of this guy, he keeps fucking coming back.
That disgusting Stan Winston look alike is still around. God help us.
 

Moguro Fukuzou

Customer Satisfaction 100% Guaranteed
kiwifarms.net
The original cons were started by the anime version of stereotypical Star Trek nerds (some of them even were Star Trek nerds), and for the first 5-10 years the number of cons was small and the core demo was pretty directly analogous to everyone's negative stereotype of Trekkies. (mostly college age, semi-antisocial dudes who were obsessively nerdy about their hobby with a minority of people (including women) that fell outside that demo) In the late 90s, the first anime boom hit and things went in exactly this order:
1. The population of girls (often cosplaying) increased until the con gender dynamic was closer to 50/50
2. Point 1 had exactly the effect you would expect if you understand how "ladies night" works at bars and nightclubs, and the male demographic changed dynamics
3. Anime on TV boomed in the early 00s and the age demo fell from 20s to teens (because you could now get anime free on TV whereas before you needed a job or it was more limited to college anime clubs)
4. The industry sales boom was around 2005 (bust was a few years later) and with the industry flush with cash, that's when you also had a flood of losers thinking they could run a convention instead of getting a real job
5. Late 00s is when voice actors looked around and wondered why they weren't getting a cut of the action and suddenly started charging fees
6. Early 10s is when cos-thots started trying to work IRL cam-whoring into a career

So basically where you are now is that anime conventions are poor mans "Disney World", you've got a bunch of people that are looking to pay some cash to be entertained for a weekend and a whole lot of people looking to tard cum them for as much cash as possible. Since the con demo has shifted younger many attendees as basically funded by mummy and daddy who are happy for the reasonably priced babysitting for a weekend and drop their kids off thinking it's a great place to put 12 - 15 year olds with no supervision.

If cons were still like (for example) a baseball card show where they're somewhat narrow in focus you'd have a better environment, because even with the chaotic age groups everyone would either gel around the core point or they'd just leave due to lack of interest. But due to point #4 above, most con orgs are trying to be everything to all people because more people is good for their back account. This means you get problems like the men from Point #2 coming to cons looking for a hook-up and regularly running into the kids from Point #3. (and sometimes trying to pickup underage girls or raging at underage boys interfering with their game, take your pick) And everyone from Points 4, 5 & 6 (and other groups not explicitly mentioned) looking to tard cum money out of anyone in arms reach and getting agitated by the high number of kids with no money.

I'm not saying things would be "better" if they had just stayed as the anime equivalent of trekkie events, but if so, it would've been a bunch of codependent nerds that would look out for their own. The actors would've either bought into the community or peace'd out. (at early cons, lots of actors looked down on voice work and were always shilling their theater or "front of camera" work at all opportunities) But there's so many disparate interests now that it's simply unrealistic to expect any real sense of community.
More personal observations from my time at cons and personal experience, but with more girls going to cons, usually also bringing their friends along, you had an increase in creeps thinking that they would be easy scores because those girls were usually the awkward nerdy type, guys who only went to cons to pick up chicks. It still happens now but I don't think as rampant once they started doing the "cosplay is not consent" campaign, thought now there's the problem of consluts making people think that every female cosplayer is a conslut. Creeps still go to cons but its become a lot easier to spot and avoid them since info spreads pretty quickly among girls on who to avoid. Yet problems still occur where the creeps aren't con-goers but con staff or these creeps are actively encouraged by stupid consluts looking to make money.

I've also noticed an uptick on cons going from anime/manga conventions to general geek cons to draw in bigger numbers as they grow larger. As the years go by, I find less desire to go to local cons because they host less and less panels on actual anime or anything focused. I remember my first years of con going back in the 00s to early 10s being frantically running from panel to panel and having to mule over picking one panel over the other. Nowadays I'm lucky if there's more than one or two panels I wanted to go to each day. Taking a peak at the schedule for the big local con in my area that I had no time to go to this year it's largely made up of cosplay panels, gaming, Doctor who, Comics, Creative writing, more cosplay, and a bunch of panels on queer representation for some reason. I can count the number of interesting panels the entire weekend on one hand, I'm honestly a little shocked.
 

FadeIntoObsurity

kiwifarms.net
Isn't it more that as fandoms grow they attracted certain kinds of people that don't actually care about the property but more want to police it? This whole "toxic" fandom I've only noticed myself when those types start trying to insert themselves in something they clearly don't care about because it's the new hip thing and call the existing fanbase toxic for thinking that this policing is stupid. Whenever I see people complaining about a show being sexist or something they start calling the fanbase toxic when they get told to "just don't watch the show and stop bitching." They find problems where there aren't any so they can prop up the whole "SEE, we obviously need to police this fandom because stuff like this is still around!"

It wasn't even that long ago where you'd get weird looks for even saying you watched anime and now that it's more trendy you see these people latch on to it. Exact same problem happening in D&D now that it's "cool" with people talking about "opening up the community" being the same people who made fun of those same D&D players when it wasn't the cool thing to do.

I don't know, I feel like a grumpy old hipster. Anime especially, people that have been watching for a long time have a very strong emotional attachment to because, being frank here, usually they were the weird kid that didn't fit in that used anime to cope. Of course these people are going to lash back at you when they see you attacking something important to them, especially when you do it in the typical condescending "I know what's best for this community" even though you only joined in when it became okay and even trending to talk about how much you liked anime. There's always been fighting in the anime community but the difference is that it was all in-fighting between fellow fans about stupid things like best anime or dubs, it gave them a way of interacting with people that were probably just as awkward as they were. It was never toxic.
What these people label as toxic is long time anime fans fighting back against an outsider to the community trying to change things that don't need to be changed. They've heard it all before with people mocking them for watching that "weird asian crap" growing up and aren't fooled by you attempts to hide your distaste for anime underneath the garbage "I just want anime to be more inclusive!"

I make sure to pop in any time Tomino gives his opinion on other anime/manga creators because ANN's forum for the article are always a treat. A lot of them getting very upset about their sacred cows being attacked and whining that Tomino of all people is just doing it because he's starving to stay relevant.
I have noticed the change in people's perception of anime. Anime was a weird thing to be into when I first started watching it... aside from the mainstream shows that were dubbed and targeted to children like Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z, and Pokemon. They were seen as cartoons for kids by the general public, so if you liked them as an adult it was weird. But there were also shows that were for a more adult audience, but they were always on in the middle of the night. Not many shows got dubbed in the past either. I find it pretty amazing that it has grown to the point that practically every show gets dubbed and released so closely to when the episode airs in Japan. Back then dubs usually weren't released at all, or you had to wait an awfully long time.

Anime has become more accepted, and with that more people than ever before are in the community. I'd say the growing toxicity within the community is due to the rise of social media. Social media gives people more control over the discussions they have with people. Message boards were the main way to converse with others about a certain anime or video game back then. You can have conversations with a variety of people and have pretty civil debates with others about stuff. If a toxic group showed up, the staff would be able to handle them. They would either start behaving civily or get suspended or banned. Bans never happened too often. Nowadays anyone can just set up a Facebook page or a Twitter thread and discuss things with only people who were toxic like them. This solidifies their mindsets that their way of thinking is the only way of thinking. It's easier to shut out others and just stay within your own circle.

That's just how I've seen it anyway.
 

DanDanielsons

kiwifarms.net
Nagato (and Wakaba) survived the war and got nuked at Operation Crossroads, like Prinz Eugen, Saratoga, Arkansas and many other target ships.
Poor Prinz Eugen (and Nagato too I guess). Really all those would've made fine museum ships. Especially the Yamato had the Nips not decided to kamikaze her before their surrender (and failed at it).
 

xyz741

kiwifarms.net
Creeps still go to cons but its become a lot easier to spot and avoid them since info spreads pretty quickly among girls on who to avoid.
In terms of guys looking to score chicks it really runs the gamut from stalker type creeps to frat-dude-bro type guys. Guys (as a general rule, not con specific) really don't care, if there's a time and place to try to score chicks, they'll avail themselves of it. The difference is mainly in how their received. Outside of the extreme "gonna be on the news one day" stalker types, most are just "take photos and hover trying to make awkward conversation" types. The CosThots abuse the hell out of these and the more awkward girls are uncomfortable and try to avoid them. The dudebros are sometimes with the CosThots and some of the nerdy girls want to be noticed by the hot guy. If this sounds exactly like the normal high school dynamic, it's because it is, you just have a large proportion of people thinking that cons aren't the "real world" and thus the standard dynamic doesn't apply, they are (of course) entirely incorrect.
I've also noticed an uptick on cons going from anime/manga conventions to general geek cons to draw in bigger numbers as they grow larger.
Yep, if you can get 1000 anime fans or 800 anime fans and 800 gamers who don't care about anime, then why give up all that bonus money from the extra 600 people? And yes, the other interests tack on in entirely the same way. The one benign way it starts, is anime fans with other interests offer to talk about random crap, con orgs need to fill schedule slots, so rather than put extra effort into that, it's easier to be lazy and just take every bad idea thrown out to make it look like there's a lot of programming. Then once you've gone from 10 people who want to talk about Lord of the Rings for an hour, to 500 people cosplaying it and re-enacting their favorite scenes, rather than run an unprofitable show for years to build that community, it's easier to just expand the "anime" convention to include that group and you make more money anyway, bonus!
 

xyz741

kiwifarms.net
I wouldn't be as annoyed with his behavior if he called out both sides. Then the whole healing the community thing would still be annoying, but would also feel actually genuine. Now it just feels very hollow and fake. I hope he actually responds to emosh, so someone can point out the hypocrisy to him. Well, maybe he's aware...
None of them really care about "healing the community", the goal is to "minimize the damage" and the whole reason for that is because it affects their bottom line. Chuck has thrown in with KV because on the industry side, the numbers are there. To put it simply, 3 years from now if Kamehacon wants to look like the biggest and best DBZ con, then they should be KV because Vic is 1 guy and all the other primaries are KV or at least willing to not publicly align with Vic. Meaning if you run a Vic friendly DBZ con and I run a "no Vic ever" DBZ con, one of us will have more guests.

Now, the mistake he is making with this thinking is that "more guests = more money". This will be an interesting one to watch because most of the people that are publicly KV are like Dominique, which is to say non-paying people. They don't even buy badges (which is probably something that Kamehacon noticed) and probably don't pay for autographs, if only because "I've known X for years, we're cool". Chuck wants ISWV to "reconcile" with KV, because in the near term, KV is more likely to be the norm for convention Org side, but KV has a lot of money that he would prefer to see come in the door rather than boycott.

EDIT: (Chuck is also forgetting the Michael Jordan adage, paraphrased as: The other side has money that I want too)
 
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HighwayStar

kiwifarms.net
None of them really care about "healing the community", the goal is to "minimize the damage" and the whole reason for that is because it affects their bottom line. Chuck has thrown in with KV because on the industry side, the numbers are there. To put it simply, 3 years from now if Kamehacon wants to look like the biggest and best DBZ con, then they should be KV because Vic is 1 guy and all the other primaries are KV or at least willing to not publicly align with Vic. Meaning if you run a Vic friendly DBZ con and I run a "no Vic ever" DBZ con, one of us will have more guests.

Now, the mistake he is making with this thinking is that "more guests = more money". This will be an interesting one to watch because most of the people that are publicly KV are like Dominique, which is to say non-paying people. They don't even buy badges (which is probably something that Kamehacon noticed) and probably don't pay for autographs, if only because "I've known X for years, we're cool". Chuck wants ISWV to "reconcile" with KV, because in the near term, KV is more likely to be the norm for convention Org side, but KV has a lot of money that he would prefer to see come in the door rather than boycott.
Exactly. This isn’t about healing the community; it’s about damage control and rewriting history. Every corporation is guilty of this, including Funimation. The only difference is that no typical corporation would let their employees insult and threaten their customers and get away with it, which is why Funimation has no credibility, no matter how much they try to spin the story. Even if the case ends today, no one will let forget Funimation what they did, especially anime fans.
Just scrolled through some spergy argument on twitter; the KV spergs kept gloating about how Vic's fired, how he won't ever get hired again, how he won't be able to attend conventions again and see his fans, how he'll go bankrupt because of the lawsuit and so on. No Chuck in sight to remind them to be kind. Yet he comes running when an ISWV sperg posts a dumb meme to scold them.

I wouldn't be as annoyed with his behavior if he called out both sides. Then the whole healing the community thing would still be annoying, but would also feel actually genuine. Now it just feels very hollow and fake. I hope he actually responds to emosh, so someone can point out the hypocrisy to him. Well, maybe he's aware...
He ain’t going to respond. He’s pretty much ruined his credibility when he condemned Emosh for laughing at Dominique’s accounts suspended, but shrugged about Vic’s mom being harassed and not saying anything about people wanting Vic to kill himself. With friends like that, who needs enemies?
 
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ThatDumbPhilosopher

Dumbass-in-Chief
kiwifarms.net
More personal observations from my time at cons and personal experience, but with more girls going to cons, usually also bringing their friends along, you had an increase in creeps thinking that they would be easy scores because those girls were usually the awkward nerdy type, guys who only went to cons to pick up chicks. It still happens now but I don't think as rampant once they started doing the "cosplay is not consent" campaign, thought now there's the problem of consluts making people think that every female cosplayer is a conslut. Creeps still go to cons but its become a lot easier to spot and avoid them since info spreads pretty quickly among girls on who to avoid. Yet problems still occur where the creeps aren't con-goers but con staff or these creeps are actively encouraged by stupid consluts looking to make money.

I've also noticed an uptick on cons going from anime/manga conventions to general geek cons to draw in bigger numbers as they grow larger. As the years go by, I find less desire to go to local cons because they host less and less panels on actual anime or anything focused. I remember my first years of con going back in the 00s to early 10s being frantically running from panel to panel and having to mule over picking one panel over the other. Nowadays I'm lucky if there's more than one or two panels I wanted to go to each day. Taking a peak at the schedule for the big local con in my area that I had no time to go to this year it's largely made up of cosplay panels, gaming, Doctor who, Comics, Creative writing, more cosplay, and a bunch of panels on queer representation for some reason. I can count the number of interesting panels the entire weekend on one hand, I'm honestly a little shocked.
You are right, I will also give my view about cons from where I live (baguette land).
I am not trying to power level, simply expose my point of view so I will need to talk a bit about what I do in these cons.

I discovered cons when I was around 12 and I immediately started with the most reknowed one in my country. To be honest I was amazed to see so many people gathered at one place, the cosplays were beautiful and the ambiance was great.
I never wanted to leave and was quite sad when I had to but during the day I was scouted by a cosplayer who gave me a mean to contact her so I could discover the world of cosplaying.
Since then I started cosplaying as different characters such as Saber, Saber Alter and Jeanne d'Arc from the Fate series just to say a few examples.
That's when I discovered the view on cons as a cosplayers, depending on where you go cosplayers are treated differently, I know some cons where cosplayers are simply treated as a nuisance and some where we are almost treated as VIPs by the staff. However that's not what I was afraid of when going to cons, I have some fellow cosplayers who are all afraid of the same things as I : Free Huggers, Creeps and the biggest of them being creeps who uses photography as a matter to hook-up with their models.
To this day it is still a problem even with the "Cosplay is not consent" movement however word spread around fast in the community so we identify these relatively easily.

Now I have dropped doing cosplay for a while because I simply don't have the same drive as before and don't have much time to work on my cosplans. Since I am pretty much broke all the time I was thinking about how to enter in cons without having to pay so I decided to work at cons as a member of the staff.
That's when I have discovered the view on cons as a member of the Staff and that also when I've discovered how everything is not as beautiful as it seems to the visitors.
The amount of work is huge and even though you could access to the con with a free pass, you are submitted to a schedule (which wasn't a problem since I was here to work) however, once again, depending on the con the staff is treated differently, I've been to cons where we were treated poorly (I am talking about not being fed and having no break at all.) and some where it was quite chill (with a buffet in the staff room, break whenever you wanted and free access to the VIP room.) so I have quite a neutral opinion about that point of view but what could be creepy is that there was always rumors about VIPs acting like Divas/creeps even though it never happened to me when I was assigned to VIPs so I am kind of skeptical about that.
I have worked as a con staff for about 4-5 years before dropping it because I had enough of the mistreatment of the staff.

Right now I am back on going to cons as a simple visitor even though I decided to use my knowledge about cosplays to be a kind of Rescue Force to cosplayers, meaning I stuff my backpack with all sort of materials (Hot glue, ducktape, cloth, pins, needles and polyester threads, etc...) and go around the con repairing cosplays whenever there's a problem.
But with my previous knowledge I am more aware of my surroundings in the cons so it is not unusual for me to spot creeps and call freehuggers out whenever they sprint towards cosplayers in order to hug them without asking consent, often resulting on getting something broken.
But I have also seen more and more cons adopting the "Melting pot" strategy in order to bring more people in aswell as having more selling/food stands.

To be perfectly honest I am quite glad to see the geek culture being more mainstream but I always raise an eyebrow when I see people trying to hook up with cosplayers and catcalling them.

Well then that's all I had to say.
Sorry again for the powerlevelling but I hope it helped some of y'all to see how it is around here.
 

xyz741

kiwifarms.net
The amount of work is huge and even though you could access to the con with a free pass, you are submitted to a schedule (which wasn't a problem since I was here to work) however, once again, depending on the con the staff is treated differently, I've been to cons where we were treated poorly (I am talking about not being fed and having no break at all.) and some where it was quite chill (with a buffet in the staff room, break whenever you wanted and free access to the VIP room.) so I have quite a neutral opinion about that point of view but what could be creepy is that there was always rumors about VIPs acting like Divas/creeps even though it never happened to me when I was assigned to VIPs so I am kind of skeptical about that.
I have worked as a con staff for about 4-5 years before dropping it because I had enough of the mistreatment of the staff.
One thing to keep in mind if you ever volunteer for a convention is that for the primary Orgs (con chair, most staff heads, etc), 90% (if not 100%) fall into one of two groups. Both groups are about equally liable to abuse your enthusiasm, but for entirely different reasons:
1. The fanboys/girls, these are the people that are hardcore nerds of the con material, and unfortunately, this number is in serious decline. These people will probably work you like a dog with little reward, but that's only because they are doing the same to themselves. A fanboy will run on 2 hrs sleep and caffeine for most of the weekend and not think that other people are not as psychotically invested as they are, they are unfortunately often maligned because people think they are....
2. The CEOs, these are the people that are in it for the money. They may have loved the material once, they might even still watch one or two shows now, but the show is a business and you are free (or really, really cheap) labor. The "best" ones will give you cheap rewards because replacing you may take more effort than they want to put in, the worst ones will just abuse the hell out of you until you burn out.

Again, the best fans have enough self awareness to try to keep from overworking people that aren't as hardcore as themselves and the best CEOs try to mask the mercenary nature of the "business" as much as they can to sustain your enthusiasm, but those are the two motivations for people doing it. Both ends are prone to getting into cliques with "VIPs", be they guests, cosplayers, industry/businesses, etc. It's always just a question of how well they can compartmentalize their role, it's usually easier for the CEO types simply because in the end most of them aren't going to risk their bank account for ego-stroking.
 

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